In the industry known as the "first block of the block community," the three o'clock sleepless block chain group, brought together the heavyweight figures in the domestic block chain industry. On the second day of the New Year, starting at 11 am, the group members with a total market capitalization of about 1 trillion yuan, as the traditional world still rejoice in the Great Reign, Technology, valuation, investment and future, the main questions raised in the group were carefully answered and shared. The full text is as follows: Q1: Stellar recently fierce in Silicon Valley, do you think the threat to eth big? Patrick Dai:
ETH has become an ecosystem where the greatest risk comes from the risks inherent in one's own ecology but less from outside risks unless there is a tenfold increase in Ethereum's advanced ideas and technologies, giving it an opportunity to replace Ethereum , Otherwise it is a big threat to the nature, but not competing with the front of Ethereum, in other areas (outside the ICO) force, there are still a lot of business and investment opportunities. Q2: What do you think about the millions of TPS that eos claims? Patrick Dai:
Blockchain is not born for the TPS, if we need faster TPS, the existing banking system and Paypal and WeChat payment, is a better choice. In addition to the degree of decentralization and TPS is basically an irreconcilable conflict, many of the replacement of TPS is to sacrifice network to the degree of centralization to obtain, I personally think, simply in pursuit of higher TPS, but it makes no sense , Especially if the network after only a few dozen large nodes (this is not the early stages of the bank?), Then the high TPS, very often not significant.
TPS makes sense for specific things, but requires a compromise with the philosophy behind cryptocurrencies. Because traditional IT technology has been studied for distributed systems for decades, all algorithms based on BFT and various variants can achieve very high TPS, but their degree of centralization is relatively high. The average person in the network is Can not get the right of reciprocity If you can not participate in the supervision and verification of the network, in fact, the use of existing financial services are more than enough. Question 3: Qtum
Chain initial design of the core of what is the point? Qtum
how to build their own ecology? Qtum
globalization is good, even South Koreans like Qtum
,landing strategies and methods in different states around the world how to look?** Patrick Dai: The core of Qtum Blockchain design:
Question 4: Decentralized trading system, the future direction of development is? Patrick Dai
- Security, security is the number one priority for cryptocurrency systems, with no foundation for security and sophisticated software as a back-up.
- Qtum chain is basically compatible with bitcoin's UTXO and all BIPs, and is also compatible with EVM and EVM-based ecology.
- Flexible, the biggest innovation in Qtum is based on bitcoin transaction model, which supports the implementation of smart contract, so that Ethereum's virtual machine can run on the bitcoin network. In addition, the current Qtum network is already in the POS phase, and around 3000 A full node. POS is more friendly to business applications. Through technical support, development tools, Community Roadshow investment hatching in the constant construction of the ecology of the Qtum Blockchain. The more important thing is landing on the local community developers and local project developers to achieve localization, the international team will also be a lot of help.
: to the center of the trading system of my research is not much to talk about a few specific cases, the earliest to the center of the trading system is based on the colorcoin mastercoin and counterparty transactions colorcoin on the back appeared on NXT and the BTS Decentralized trading systems, followed by the emergence of etherdelta (based on the smart contract trading system), from the experience above, several decentralized trading system experience, similar to the centralized trading system of high-frequency mobile Sex, a great gap. About decentralized trading system in the order matching and order synchronization, this can find some developers in this area, consult. Q5: ipfs really can really decentralized web and app? Not a simple one? What is the point of going to a centralized app? Patrick Dai
: IPFS specific technology to achieve no in-depth study, but read the design concept, the project itself also mentioned for several years, to the center of the web and app should be serverless service to developers, as long as the interface , Regardless of who behind the service to provide. Is not a simple token, depending on the ecology behind it, bitcoin is essentially just a piece of data in a bitcoin network, and decentralized apps make sense, but at the moment many of Dapp's really just an app + blockchain as a settlement layer .
However, the future of blockchain and Dapp's future will transcend the existence of cryptocurrency and will become a social infrastructure: trust. Dapp has a lot of good direction: the game (props channels), content (movie music text), Internet of things, ID and so on. Q6: Everyone has been saying that it is necessary to decentralize and intensify the high level of Dapp's certain degree of contradictions. However, we can not just stay at the stage where btc is used as a currency and eth only serves as a currency to be raised. Developing Dapps to address user needs, that is, the need to strike a balance between a purely decentralized utopia and user application world, Dpos is a solution for now, what do you think? How to grasp the degree of the two? Patrick Dai:
Indeed, many Dapp is a pseudo-concept, but cryptocurrency itself has begun to penetrate into various places as the first successful application based on blockchain technology. My consideration for the future blockchain system is that there is enough decentralization at the bottom and the application layer can be neutralized. We need a trustless bottom plus an application layer that requires trust, on the one hand, a trustless premium (trust cost Lowest) + centralized premium (centralized), Dapp still has a lot to see in the future, such as gaming (virtual assets and channel changes) digital content (movie music) Internet of Things security and management of digital identities Areas of Pratt & Whitney Finance (Insurance-autonomous finance and micro-financial services, etc.).
At present, many Dapp just use the characteristics of a blockchain, that is, the issuance and clearing of tokens. The blockchain has many other features that need to be discovered and discovered. Q7: How do you think about the feasibility and security of cross-link technology? At present, you are optimistic about this project. In addition, how to ensure the trust and reliability of the link in the chain? Patrick Dai
: I personally feel that the current cross-link area is still in its early stages, both in bitcoin and Ethereum network have limited processing power, and the process of continuous evolution, I personally feel that this one cross-chain is not yet mature enough, and from the solution Just need to point out whether cross-link at least at this stage is not just a need.
On the Oracle side, this is a need, especially in the popularization of smart contracts, we need the blockchain can access external systems, in a sense, the current blockchain is an algorithm-driven self-consistent Closed system, the logic is pre-set. Through Oracle we can introduce external data sources to trigger the execution of the contract. There are many directions on how to solve the problem of credible data sources.
One is a centralized approach, such as providing data sources by auditing companies and government departments. Another way to go to the center is to introduce games and mortgages. Punish fraud and reward honest data sources and establish a preferred positive feedback mechanism. Of course, there are many other solutions, there is a lot of community research, Microsoft also has a cryptolet project. Q8: Ask a funny, 10 times eth, I have been curious about this issue, high-dimensional playing low-dimensional, non-dimensional entanglement. You must have thought about this 10 times the problem or possible direction method, want to hear you talk about the possibility of 10 times the direction of eth? Patrick Dai
: 10 times ETH advanced concepts and technology iteration, ETH basically invest this thing is done through the ICO done the ultimate, 15 seconds to complete the investment process (DD TS Token release). It takes a few months, compared to the traditional melting of an angel, which is a difference of 15 seconds vs 3 months. So somehow, ETH becomes the largest investment and financing platform in the world. This is also the largest application of Ethereum, but the application of other smart contracts but did not develop. From the cash point of view there are several directions:
From a technical point of view:
- distributed governance (refer to bitcoin 1M to 2M process and DAO processing);
- system of self-evolution and evolution;
- ease of use 10 times the increase;
Q9: On the current blockchain + distributed computing issues, I think in the future if the dapp market can really make it indispensable based on the blockchain program to solve the calculation, storage, node acceleration and other issues. Currently I see several projects on distributed computing are based on the construction of Ethereum, are worrying about the performance, how do you think? Patrick Dai
- scalability (full node size participation threshold TPS reciprocal rights);
- privacy and application independence and loose coupling (refer to Parity theft);
- Better flexibility (more types of virtual machines and a wider range of smart contract languages);
- network layering and partitioning and data compression;
- new consensus mechanisms (often requiring years of testing and practice) and more.
: Distributed Computing I did not study much, but its initial project should come from MaidSafe (https://maidsafe.net/
), a nearly 10-year project, essentially Proof of Resource, and many others. The type of computation is actually not very suitable for distributed processing, requiring serial processing of data that is essentially not accelerated through distributed computing, and distributed computing may be able to handle similar game rendering and image rendering needs, but I do not know How big is a market?
In addition, in distributed computing, it is also a problem how to use a common programming language to describe the computing task to be calculated and submit it accurately to the computing node. This one can consult the head of distributed computing projects. Q10: Analysis of the following characteristics and advantages and disadvantages of the underlying chain: BTC / QTUM / ETH / EOS / NEO / ELASTOS?
Q11: At present more discussion is the public chain and the basic agreement, the application of technology in the future how to develop, what application scenarios faster landing? Patrick Dai
- BTC: theological narrative, community consensus, completed from carriage to car transition, belongs to the encrypted currency attributes, but also want to do a good job of cryptographic currency attributes, UTXO and POW and some standard types of transactions, as a guarantee Secure, reliable and secure cryptocurrency system, a point-to-point electronic cash system. But this is instead the most wild imagination of mankind, and what is more imaginative than creating money?
- ETH: smart contract and Dapp platform, before the rise of ICO in March 2017, Ethereum did not show any special advantages, smart contract nor any sign of mass landing, an angel of manhood, promoted Ethereum However, smart contracts are still at an early stage and are still far away from large-scale applications. However, smart contracts should be time-tested in addition to cryptocurrency. Techno-Ethereum is essentially a Global account state machine, through the contract, the funds and data of the account to operate, compared to bitcoin more flexibility. But now also faces various technical challenges.
- QTUM: The Bottom BTC-based UTXO Model (Secure and Reliable) A wide variety of virtual machines (X86 developed by Ethereum EVM + Qtum) can be supported through the account abstraction layer and future support for various programming languages (C ++ Rust) to write a smart contract, is essentially a layered design, taking into account security and flexibility. In addition the underlying is already POS, and there are more than 3500 full nodes.
- Both EOS and NEO are evolving toward high TPS, but at this moment, I personally feel if I'm in the public chain or need to balance TPS and decentralize. If it is for business services is not needed.
- ELASTOS is based on the bottom of NXT, to achieve a distributed computing, the recent lack of attention, but NXT as the earliest implementation of a POS, account-based blockchain system, many of the back of the system is very helpful (NEM, etc. ), NXT technically made a lot of contribution to the development of the blockchain industry, but neglected to manage and operate, early token holders are too concentrated.
: The current blockchain technology is still in its early stages of evolution, standing in the Internet era 20 years ago, when we can hardly imagine today can be called a mobile phone uber, the development of technology to give everyone a more rich diversity The possibility is the future.
From an application perspective, the blockchain industry is indeed in the early stages of its application. Cryptocurrency is relative to the blockchain, similar to Email versus Internet, but the development behind the Internet goes far beyond emailing for information exchange, Then the future development of the blockchain will certainly not stop at cryptocurrencies born for value exchange.
Cryptocurrency is just the beginning. From a scenario perspective, the biggest feature of blockchain technology is that it guarantees a trustless platform through a variety of technologies, a trust-free platform that reduces the cost of all business transactions. Q12: First ask yourself a few questions: blockchain where the biggest investment opportunities? Patrick Dai
: Based on the changes and disruptiveness brought by cryptocurrency, its wealth is created faster than the industrial revolution and the information revolution. From an investment point of view, I personally feel that there are several good directions:
Q13: Is cryptocurrency popular at large scale? Patrick Dai
- Encrypted currency (cryptocurrency and token) in the underlying publicchain, which basically became the industry's first token-based blockchain technology with a close combination of blockchain
- Technologies and specific application scenarios (the industry is in its infancy)
- Encryption Asset Services Portal (Wallet Exchange IM)
- Breaking Down Scenarios Across Industries (Games, Entertainment, IoT, ID, Healthcare, Supply Chain)
- Organizational Change Research, Economics, Think Tanks, Deep Media.
: the development of technology with jumping, but difficult to retract, with the car, the car will never disappear, although the carriage also continued to exist for hundreds of years. The advent of cryptocurrency is not a coincidence, but is accompanied by the maturity of various internet infrastructures and the enlightenment of Cyber punk movement concept. It belongs to the fusion of technology and thought, not just to technological innovation.
Personally, I think the cryptocurrency is unlikely to disappear, the widespread adoption of cryptocurrency depends on the applicability of the cryptocurrency system, including what rigid demands are being addressed, and for the moment, the greatest use is to provide people around the world an option: a very fluid Transparent, credible, secure global assets. Q14: How to build a valuation model of blockchain platform? Patrick Dai
: I have sent an article before. At present, this is a big problem in the industry. We do not have a set of valuation system to realize early warning and assessment of risks. What is the valuation of a project? Before writing something for your reference. http://www.gongxiangcj.com/posts/3895
"The number of nodes and cryptocurrency valuation model." Q15: Who is Nakamoto? Patrick Dai
: From what I learned, Nakamoto was a hardworking man with idealistic feelings. It should be done independently by one person. There are many anonymous tech bucks in IRC channel in 2011 and 2012, on which you can see Nakamoto's figure. In addition to the birth of BTC, there is also some relationship with a Chinese Wei Dai.
Wei Dai, who wrote Bmoney's paper before, Zhong Zhongcong and Wei Dai also had some emails, and mentioned to Wei Dai that he has implemented Bmoney's part of cryptoCurrency, but in the second part of Bmoney there is actually a tentative idea about the contract. We can refer to Wei Dai's thesis at http://www.weidai.com/bmoney.txt
's idea Wei Dai has had some simple email exchanges, but Wei Dai's interest is no longer in the circle of cryptocurrencies. Q16: In all the coins, which one will live the longest? Patrick Dai
: simply look at cryptocurrencies, BTC completed a historic jump, but also a breakthrough from 0 to 1, followed by many cryptocurrencies are 1 to 1.1 and 1.1 to 1.2 changes, more than one billion US dollars in the amount of encrypted currency thoroughly It is unlikely that it will disappear because of the drive and governance of the community that the community will uphold even if the developer does not maintain it. However, there are indeed many crypto-currencies that will be eliminated and 95% of the projects should be gone after three years. Q17: 18 years blockchain private market analysis, what kind of industry is better? Patrick Dai
: Currently the industry needs to find other applications in addition to the cryptocurrency killer app, from the technical development point of view, I personally trust the concept of trustless Platform constantly landing and provide the underlying technology research and development and application scenarios. Q18: Which industry has the largest total of all the industries in the blockchain? Patrick Dai
: Cryptocurrency itself seems to be the biggest at this moment, and others feel that there are many opportunities for the gaming industry and for digital content (video and audio) and for financial services and the Internet of Things. Q19: Want to hear the competition between the public chain and the public relations and cooperation, how to comment on the big brother? Patrick Dai
: last year's growth in the industry, in essence, we are still eating BTC created by the combination of technology and ideas, creating a human species in the history of a new species premium, BTC has its historic significance. The groundbreaking idea it brought, gradually attracted the public's attention, but from a technical point of view, what BTC can do is limited, but it does solve its positioning.
Technology is not good or bad, mainly to meet the needs. BTC technology to meet its point-to-point electronic cash system positioning and needs. We do not expect to build infinite applications in the BTC above, this is impossible. The public chain is indeed an open experimental field and a community-driven evolutionary community of interests. Its vitality is also very strong. However, at present, the problem is that we really need technological progress to further promote the scene. If only from the perspective of cryptocurrency, BTC LTC DogeCoin for a user, in essence, is the same experience, and the experience of Ethereum is not much different. The difference is, BTC and the US dollar experience is very different.
I personally feel that the blockchain industry is an ecology. Whether it is serving one of the areas in the blockchain and ultimately building a blockchain together, it is essentially a collaborative evolution that builds a stronger consensus mechanism. Diversity provides the basis for the choice of consensus, and if there is only one technical direction, then the evolution of technology has become slow. In addition this is only a technical factor, but the blockchain system is not only as simple as technology, there is community community of interests behind. Q20: What dimensions are the most important when evaluating the value of a blockchain project? What factors can be rejected one vote?
The Beginning: The Essential Elements of the Encrypted Currency Valuation Model (I send some thoughts that I wrote before) As the first truly successful decentralized e-cash system, bitcoin became the anchor of value in the industry and By far the most centralized network, Bitcoin is designed as an electronic currency that is secure, secure, and has a very low threshold of participation in the early stages.
It is early everyone can participate, and become a full node without any threshold, anyone can download bitcoin client, early mining in his computer, so in fact the realization of the low threshold of the financial services system, everyone With the freedom to join and exit, bitcoin clients have been rapidly evolving early, and if the client is a game, the Bitcoin client's distribution is a borderless game.
In P2P network, a very important core element is full node. In a P2P network, the total number of nodes basically determines the technical value of this network. Why do you say that?
In the traditional database domain and distributed system, we study the consistency of the data, there are already many, all major companies have their own solutions, but few companies have tens of thousands of distributed system distributed nodes, So most of the research results are more suitable for some enterprises to solve the solution. For example, the Paxos algorithm proposed by Leslie Lamport in 1990 can achieve highly fault-tolerant requirements based on message passing. The latter algorithm is also widely used in google Chubby lock, and Chubby lock behind is widely used in Google's core design Bigtable, bigtable is to support a lot of Google's core business.
The realization of Bitcoin network is a fusion of technology and humanity.
In a traditional distributed network, in a large company's network, each node in many cases is due to network reasons, dropping or sending wrong messages, instead of deliberately forging information for the sake of profit.
The realization of bitcoin is facing a more complicated network environment, not only a more complex network environment, but also a more complicated game of humanity. In the traditional distributed network, no one will consider the introduction of incentives to allow nodes to maintain data consistency, Nakamoto was the first person to do so, and through a resource that can not be monopolized (hash function computing power ) To ensure the effective allocation of accounting rights to avoid single-point ddos attacks on specific accounting nodes.
Bitcoin network to each distributed node in the network, the consistency of each time slice into a time interval consistency, if you look at the global currency bitcoin network, you will find each time slice and time, different The miners in calculating the different chains, in fact, is a bifurcated network, but in a 10-minute time interval, the probability that the data is modified is a Poisson distribution. The probability of the attacker's success is q, The growth of the block is exponentially declining. When the blockchain has six acknowledgments, the attacker's probability of success tends to be essentially zero.
If you are the full node in a Bitcoin network, then you have the largest and equal rights to the network, and you no longer have to trust third parties or give up your rights to others. At present, many other cryptocurrencies tend to be centralized. Many consensus mechanisms realize a fast transaction processing speed. In essence, they deprive participants of their equal rights and allow the network to return to a centralized network. But if we really need to hand over our rights in the blockchain network, banks may be a better choice than a lot of centralized blockchain systems.
At present there are about 13,000 full nodes in the bitcoin network. Due to the characteristics of the p2p network, it is very difficult to accurately count the total number of nodes in the network. These 13000 full nodes bear the accounting of the distribution and transaction of currency, and are also bits The foundation of the currency. Bitcoin is definitely a more distributed clearing network than Alipay, and unlike Alipay, Alipay is just a payment instrument that serves the renminbi system. Bitcoin's global clearing network also has its own currency system --- Bitcoin Compared to a bank, opening a bitcoin "dot" actually requires only one computer to run a full node. Therefore, the final service boundary of Bitcoin is borderless, and the service objects of banks and Alipay have boundaries.
Bitcoin achieved a breakthrough from 0 to 1 and completed the carriage-to-car transition (steam engine). In fact, crypto-currencies appeared behind us. In fact, we made some improvements on the basis of Nakamoto. Indeed, we have not Take the carriage again, essentially all the cryptocurrencies are in the car.
If we look at bitcoin from a software science perspective rather than a currency perspective, the various cryptocurrencies that appear later are essentially improvements and enhancements based on bitcoin's open-source software, which many teams make And upgrading, and not much difference, whether it is to change a mining algorithm, or add some total, a lot of bifurcation is done from 1 to 1.001 experiment, bitcoin from paper currency to electronic currency from 0 To 1 transition and fission.
Today, Bitcoin has the strongest network effect and the loudest brand effect. Although the technology iteration is very, very slow, some progress has been made one after another, but it can not be surpassed from the aspect of things development. , But no matter whether it will be surpassed, the emergence of bitcoin has its historical inevitability and it will certainly accomplish its historic mission. As the world's largest distributed clearing network and built-in monetary system in the future, as well as the anchor of the value in the parallel financial world in the blockchain and the boost of crazy humanity, we predict where its future highs will be Speaking of other factors aside, cryptocurrency has opened up a new era in which its market value should surpass that of the previous wave of the Internet. Question 21: Blockchain whether the future is required to apply for a license to do? Patrick Da
i: From the future development of cryptocurrency, this is an inevitable. Question 22: The future of blockchain in the IP field? Patrick Dai
: This still need to solve the chain and chain problems, as well as integration with the existing legal system. But purely virtual assets may not be needed, such as audio and video saved in the art and electronic formats of game props and electronic designs. But no matter what kind of industry, we have to think about, in addition to the token premium liquidity brought us by the blockchain, the blockchain really helped solve what problems? Q23: Now the real consumption of blockchain project is not much, why do not wait for the project landing, re-vote? Tencent like buying now is not too late. Estimated seed round billion reasonable? Patrick Dai
: revolutionary ideas and new technology has brought endless imagination mixed with human speculation and greed. Q24: Want to know how to treat EOS Q1 beta? Patrick Dai
: the specific progress did not pay attention to too many details, each project has its own position, as long as the solution to a certain area or the general needs, I personally feel that are very valuable. But we also look at the duration of the project is also to our own positioning, if the measurement of time is one day, it is trader, if it is a month, it is a short-term speculators, if it is one year, in the block chain industry is long-term investors If it is three to five years or ten years, it's the value discoverer and the leader in technological change. Q25: What kind of impact can blockchain have on the economic vitality of the third and fourth tier cities today? When will have an impact? Patrick Dai
: I do not know this.
boldninja Let's all give a warm welcome to @synth from SkyCoin.net and for taking the time to do this AMA synth submitted by
Hi Synth jakethepanda
Hey @synth thrice.pi
Hey synth dr10
I think we can start - you guys know the drill. Give him some time to respond (no more than 2-3 questions on backlog so he can catch up) dr10
How would you - shortly & in easy words - sum-up the advantages of SkyCoin to magazines and non-crypto people? mgaruccio
Can you explain a bit about the mesh net? Is it just an mpls network between nodes or is there something deeper going on? michaelthecryptoguy
Whassup @synth tranzer
hi synth. I have a question - are those coins that are not in circulation in any cold wallets since only a portion is currently available according to CMC? What would you say is the 1 unique feature that Skycoin has? synth
It is very difficult, because Skycoin is a very large project and already has +6 years of development. Different parts of the project have different objectives.
The cryto, coin part is about solving the problems with the existing consensus algorithms. Being able to do +300 transactions a second, transactions in seconds instead of minutes (faster than credit cards), eliminating miners, eliminating block rewards (eliminating inflation) and eliminating 51% attack and the other problems with mining.
then there are other repos and experimental projects under github.com/skycoin such as a meshnet and distributed VPN prototype, where people will be paid coins for forwarding traffic. Also prototypes of distributed social media application, with peer to peer data replication and different experimental projects. Research into immutable data structures for next generation internet. Some of them are very radical. dr10
How does the Network consensus algorithm Obelisk work and differ from widely known algorithms like Proof of Work and Proof of Stake? mgaruccio
So how much exists today? Could I build an app on the platform if I wanted to? mike
In terms of the rate of progress, what is currently your greatest limiting factor - like funding, manpower, currently available technology? synth
Can you explain a bit about the mesh net? Is it just an mpls network between nodes or is there something deeper going on?
It is not actually a meshnet. It is software defined networking, it is much more powerful than just meshnet. Its a new type of networking and new completely new protocol and networking namespace, independent of the existing internet.
It supports source routing, while the existing internet does hot potato routing, so never achieves optimal latencies.
It supports multi-homing, which IPv6 does not (Which is critical for when we have gigabit or terabit networking and multi-redundant bandwidth paths)
It has default oppurunistic crypto, both link layer and end to end; so everything is encrypted by default, unlike the current internet.
It has store and forward networking and will operate in Africa or even under conditions where latencies are in the minutes or hours and packet loss is excessive. Where existing protocols cannot operate reliability. It is much more robust than IPv4/IPv6 or TCP/ip
It has improved privacy. If a packet takes a route that is 10 hops, each hop only knows the previous node in the route and the next node in the route. It is not like IPv4 where each packet gives the source and destination. The privacy level is something that does not exist on the current internet.
IP addresses are replaced by public key and no one can read traffic to a destination, without knowing the private key of the public key that identifies the destination. The system does not need 3rd parties or certificate authorities. The design is a revolution.
are those coins that are not in circulation in any cold wallets since only a portion is currently available according to CMC?
The coins are locked into 100 addresses, each with 1 million coins each. And they are released sequentially.
There is a complicated locking procedure and releasing new coins requires unamious consent and a shared secret among a group of developers. Anyone in the shared secret group can block distribution of more coins (to stop the problem that killed NXT). So by design the coins were supposed to be difficult to distribut, there had to be a good reason or justification before a distribution would be approved. mike
What are the hardware requirements to operate a wireless Skywire (the name for the protocol described above) Node? arc-over-water
nxt i think is doing ok.. synth
How does the Network consensus algorithm Obelisk work and differ from widely known algorithms like Proof of Work and Proof of Stake?
PoS and PoW use miners. Miners receive new coins every block as a block reward. So miners are making money and will fight to control the network. An everyone will suffer because the newly created coins represent inflation.
Skycoin was designed to eliminate mining and eliminate the inflation. No block rewards, no new coins. And we needed to develop a new consensus algorithm to do that and there are only a few methods that work, for these constraints. The consensus algorithm is based upon Ben-Or's randomization procedure for achieving consensus in a distributed system, with some improvements for detecting adversarial or malicious nodes who are trying to prevent the consensus process.
There are white papers on skycoin.net about the specifics. I would call it "network consensus" and it uses a sort of Web of Trust (WoT), where if the people creating blocks are doing a bad job or attacking the network, then the community can get rid of them. At the same time, the people who control the network, do not have any real power to attack the network except by slowing down transactions and being annoying, so even if they become malicious the only issue is how to get rid of them and select new people. mike
Any idea when Skywire will be released and ready to test on hardware nodes (testnet or mainnet)? mgaruccio
So if there is no block reward what is the incentive to run a node? vega
What will be the actual function of Skycoin (the coin itself)? Will the coin be used as currency, as transfer of value in and between all these various developing functionalities, semi-separate projects to tie them all together or it's function will be more limited? michaelthecryptoguy
Do you have an idea on the specs of a node that would be required? In the beginning? What about with 10,000 users? (edited) synth
nxt i think is doing ok..
There were three people that each owned 30% of the coin. One decided he wanted out and began dumping. NXT was over 150 million I think. When he started dumping, it basicly killed NXT.
Skycoin's distribution was designed to stop dumping by the founders and early people.
After Skycoin gets to 30% of the total coins distributed, there will probably a hard time lock on the remaining coins, so that a maximum of 5% of the remaining coins can be released per year. So the distribution for the other 70% of the coins will take a minimum of 14 years (and could be longer).
We cannot even sell the rest of the coins, because if we sold 10% of the total now at $5 per coin, it would be 50 million or something and we cannot spend or even use that amount of money. Not at this stage.
Ethereum spent 30 million or 70 million in their first year or two after the ICO and then nearly went bankrupt. Silicon Valley wages and offices etc. We have been very conservative and have kept costs down and kept them responsible. Now we have coins like EOS and they want to raise a billion dollars and have not produced anything yet, do not hav a blockchain and I have no idea what they would spend that money on, but they are throwing $350,000 parties in time square for marketing/PR etc... arc-over-water
what prevents you from selling? anybody can spend that amount of money?
nxt is a newer platform than sky, market value is $220 million plus $166 million, I get what you are saying but the evidence is wrong. Community is huge and active in Nxt. But you say it is killed, i dont get it? synth
What will be the actual function of Skycoin (the coin itself)? Will the coin be used as currency, as transfer of value in and between all these various developing functionalities, semi-separate projects to tie them all together or it's function will be more limited?
Yes. Bitcoin has no purpose. An altcoin does two things - check your balance - send money to other people
Two features - check balance - send
For a coin to have value, people need to be forced to buy it to consume specific services. There has to be stuff for people to spend the coin on, that there is demand for.
So Bitcoin is really just a purely speculative asset. It generates no cashflow and its value is determined by perception or social convention.
Ideally, Skycoin would start off as a "better Bitcoin" (faster, more secure, new algorithm, simplier, etc), then over time we would build up an ecosystem and have some type of backing and tie the coin's value into the network and usebase.
The mesh netork (skywire) is good, because it gives something for people to do to get coins and it allows people to consume the coins. You can run your internet traffic through a VPN that tunnels over Skywire and maybe it will be a nominal amount (actually absurdly small amount of money), but there would be real economic activity and a real userbase and community using the coin. Not just speculation.
Later on the scope is much wider. arc-over-water
So the skycoin wallet will be a VPN for our internet usage? synth
nxt is a newer platform than sky, market value is $220 million plus $166 million, I get what you are saying but the evidence is wrong. Community is huge and active in Nxt. But you say it is killed, i dont get it?
What I am saying, is that NXT would be a lot further along than it is now and probably around where Ethereum is, except for that mistake in the distribution and keeping it too concentrated. It set them back by years. They did not consider what the impact on the price would be, over the long term, when one of the early whales started selling off or decided he wanted out. arc-over-water
But they did the same again with IOTA, same lead dev.. Its over a $Billion
they released and let the market price distribute synth
So the skycoin wallet will be a VPN for our internet usage?
The VPN is just one application, that uses bandwidth over Skywire. There are several things in development.
This is a BBS like 4chan, that is completely distributed, with CXO. https://github.com/skycoin/bbs
It will run over Skywire also, This is like building a whole new internet from scratch. The apps that run on it are going to specialized and privacy focused, etc GitHub skycoin/bbs Contribute to bbs development by creating an account on GitHub. mike
So Skycoin is a Proof of Resource coin where its value is actually backed by provision of a useful service, in this case private and secure networking? Are there plans to add decentralized storage and even distributed processing to it? arc-over-water
so these 100 separate million coin accounts will be 100 ICOs or how is the distribution patterned? is it written into the code or up to the devs? rockyj
!calculate slackbot Custom Response https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FGo3FkC3uSWXGHatPQyny2brMWjAIJsHFCR-Lhkl_m0/edit#gid=0 synth
So if there is no block reward what is the incentive to run a node?
running a consensus node does not cost anything. You can run it on a raspberry pi.
The important thing is that if the people doing consensus are doing a bad job, that the community can get rid of them and replace them. The other important thing, is that they can be audited and determined automatically if they are obeying the protocol.
the miners in skycoin are not very powerful and cannot do anything except slow down transactions. They are unable to spend other people's money without their private keys, so the consensus/mining nodes are almost irrelevent. It is not like Bitcoin where the miners can hold the network hostage or act selfishly (driving up the transactions fees for their own personal benefit and delaying any innovations that would improve bitcoin for everyone, etc).
So Skycoin is a Proof of Resource coin where its value is actually backed by provision of a useful service, in this case private and secure networking? Are there plans to add decentralized storage and even distributed processing to it?
We have decentralized storage, which is called CXO. But only the bandwidth is monetized by Skywire. We do not nickle and dime and try to attach a coin cost to every API call. Everything that should be free is free. So its a different philosphy.
On top of CXO we also have distributed social media applications (simmilar to Steemit)
CXO is very similar to IFPS, but simplier and designed for our internal infrastructure and with our crypto standards, instead of being a mismash. mike
Is it possible for Skycoin to choose the best paths and route around bad or slow nodes as damage to the network, in effect reducing their impact on consensus?
looks like you answered the question above while I was typing... tranzer
How many tx/s can skycoin handle? What are block times? thrice.pi
300 right? ^ arc-over-water
on your website it says you will have a NON- Turing complete lisp language? synth
so these 100 separate million coin accounts will be 100 ICOs or how is the distribution patterned? is it written into the code or up to the devs?
We will have a distribution page, up on the website soon. Its complicated.
Skywire, is designed to pull coins out of circuation, through a sort of tithe on network activity and it does automatic buy backs effectively. So the distribution will actually peak and then decline. But one distribution is from the locked coins, and the locked coins are freed, then circulate, then end up at the foundation (from the skywire tithe are pulled out of circulation), but still count towards the free float.
The coin holders also receive a coinhour dividend and there will be a market rate conversion between coin hours and Skycoins and coinhours are the actual currency for the Skywire network. If you do not have enough coin hours, then you sell Skycoin for CoinHour at the market rate, to purchase bandwidth; but if you have a lot of coins then you have enough coin hours for downloading movies or VPN or whatever you are doing and it is essentially free.
So there is a dual level economic structure. Both with coin buybacks to pull coins out of circulation and with a dividend or incentive to encourage users to hold the coin if they are using the network. arc-over-water
so there will be two currencies, holding one reserves the other synth
Is it possible for Skycoin to choose the best paths and route around bad or slow nodes as damage to the network
Yes. This is very important.
The person dialing a connection, chooses the path of the connection!
You can choose the lowest latency path for video games or Skype, and choose highest throughput paths for video downloads etc. Or can choose paths through specific nodes or facilities or countries, for security concerns and to minimize the number of points that the traffic could be intercepted at. mike
Will Skycoin still have the node subsidy plan for setting up and registering the mesh nodes like originally planned? dr10
When do you plan to be able to present your planned technology and services to the masses? When can they use what you try do accomplish? synth
on your website it says you will have a NON- Turing complete lisp language?
That is probably an error. LOL. We will have a new website soon.
There is no scripting language on the skycoin blockchain. Each transaction is constant time (for efficiency and security and to achieve the highest transaction rate and to keep the coin simple).
However, we have a language called CX in development, which is a next generation language that is beyond "smart contracts" and the toy things on ethereum. It uses immutable datastructures and is something completely new. Most of the skycoin "smart contracts" will probably be off blockchain or in personal blockchains and we do not want to shove all the data onto the main chain, because forcing everyone to download everyone one elses contracts it the world is just spamming the blockchain to death. There are better ways to do it.
Will Skycoin still have the node subsidy plan for setting up and registering the mesh nodes like originally planned?
Yes. We are going to get from 20% to 30% distributno of the coins, through network incentives for people running Skywire nodes, consensus nodes and services.
I think this is going to be massive for marketing. And it is the best way to get the coins out to the users, instead of all the coins being held by whales samuelvihollandia
I read how you suggest Skycoin could be used for VPN connections, is this the largest use case you see? arc-over-water
Maidsafe has been working on the redesign of the net for about ten years, what are you doing the same and what different? synth
I read how you suggest Skycoin could be used for VPN connections, is this the largest use case you see?
No. This is just something easy, that we have working. Its not the largest applicatoin at all.
80% of internet traffic right now is bitorrent and the bitorrent sites are being systematically shutdown and driven off the internet. They wont go away, but will jut go underground. What.cd (largest music tracker, with 800k people) was just shut down, bakabt (largest anime tracker) has gone closed registration, Nyantorrent etc...
User communities of millions of people will be migrating from the clearnet (the existing corporate shit-net) to the "new internet". We are going to see people migrating by the millions, whole user communities of millions of people. arc-over-water
Are you a corporation or foundation or charity? Registered? I am not sure i have seen anything about who you are? What is the dev team size? Background? - Maidsafe is open and clear so is IOTA and Stellar etc. Can you let us know who you and your team are? Especially you are talking about 15 year and up obligations.. techbytes
Do we need to hold skycoin to run Skywire nodes or consensus nodes like masternodes from other coins? synth
Maidsafe has been working on the redesign of the net for about ten years, what are you doing the same and what different?
Maidsafe is in version 2 or 3. Maidsafe will not have a real coin until version 9. Each version takes them about two or three years. Maidsafe will not be "done" or ready for atleast 18 years at this rate.
Skycoin has been in development for ~6 years and the meshnet for 4 years and it will be finished in a few months. To the poin that people can start using it.
Skycoin is similar to maidsafe in the objective, but has a different approach and architecture and primitives. We did not try to do everything, but focused on a smaller, tractable core and got that done.
There will be multiple projects in this space, but few teams are able to plan on the time horizon necisary for building a new internet or able to design each of the components of a system this large, or figure out how to do it so that it is useful at each stage of construction of a project that may take a decade. (edited) mike
Can you see a way for Ark and Skycoin to build on each other in a synergistic manner? I'm all for not reinventing the wheel, especially when it looks like it will be replaced with antigravity like Skycoin.
I see Skycoin as essentially replacing TCP/IP and providing mesh network type functionality at the hardware level, Ark would run on top of it as a top level application layer. arc-over-water
are you up to date on Maidsafe, they are nearly out of Alpha and its more like release early next year? But that being said, Maidsafe says once it is released it is like a virus or AI type, so does Tau Chain, and also Autonomic by HunterMinerCrafter, are we heading towards AI with Maid, Sky Tau and Autonomic? dr10
smartbridge now! :kappa: mike
So Skycoin would act as a sort of global decentralized cloud server to build on top of.
To communicate, it is more like sharing encrypted files to selected recipients than it is sending messages or hosting sites on a specific server. synth
Are you a corporation or foundation or charity? Registered? I am not sure i have seen anything about who you are? What is the dev team size? Background?
I think there are over ~60 people who have worked on Skycoin or have made major contributions. Its really a project from the darknet.
Many of the contributors are anonymous. Some of them have security clearances and were in the military industrial complex and one of them worked at the San Diego Naval Defence Research Lab and a lot of the idea for the networking protocols came out of public sector academic researched, funded from there.
We also have a lot of very very early Bitcoin people, hardcore crypto people that predate Bitcoin and an Ethereum core developer, etc..
On the Chinese side we have an early investor in Alibaba and telecom investor. And are doing pilot with china aviation group (owns four publicly traded airline companies) and apparently now Sinopec (which is 2nd largest publicly traded corporation in world).
Then we have people who are part of israeli and US intelligence and are probably doing some sort of money laundering or phychological operations background, who just showed up for some reason. This group seems very interested in the "applications" of these coins and how to improve tranaction privacy and the specifics of the CoinJoin protocol implementation. We got a lot of advice from people experienced in forensic accounting and what they wanted to see and where they felt Bitcoin was deficient and where it leaked metadata.
Then a bunch of PHD level people doing research into distributed database consensus algorithms and another group doing programming language research.
Then a lot of people from the deep darknet, anon, frog twitter and cipher punks and bitorrent communities. (really should be listed as two seperate groups). And people from the Russian darknet community. We have like eight Ivans. (edited)
I see Skycoin as essentially replacing TCP/IP and providing mesh network type functionality at the hardware level, Ark would run on top of it as a top level application layer.
Yes. The key functionality is two things - connecting to people by public key (networking) - distributing self validating, immutble data peer to peer (transactions, blocks etc... content addressible storage)
And you can build almost anything on those two building blocks. The whole internet will eventually be rewritten on top of those primitives and it will replace many of the existing protocols. arc-over-water
Who is the entity that is funding this? I think you have done 2 ICOs? How much did you receive? The first was 10c and the second was @ 50c per coin, released 6 million, is that correct? samuelvihollandia
Are you planning to enter a different exchange market soon? arc-over-water
Have you personally been in Sky from the start? What members have? Who allocates the ICO money etc... I hope you understand that decentralization with investment is a two edged sword, we invest in people but we cannot know these people.... So... we question.. (edited) thrice.pi
with all these outside parties that helped to build skycoin and bring it where it is today who are the main core team who will help to keep all these cool features running. Will these outside parties be recruited for the long haul? synth
Who is the entity that is funding this? I think you have done 2 ICOs? How much did you receive? The first was 10c and the second was @ 50c per coin, released 6 million, is that correct?
The people who funded the project for the first four years, were early bitcoin and deep crypto people; who were unhappy with the fact that Bitcoin and the other alts did not seem concerned about the core issues at all. They gave us over 1200 bitcoin I think, over several years and did not ask for anything in return.
The early Skycoin devs were doing academic research, architecture and new algorithms. Prototyping and simulation. The later stage people were more project managers and doing implementation.
We did four ICOs for small amounts, to fund development and to allow developers working on the project to buy in. The first ICO I remember was at $0.10 per coin and the price now is about $4.00 per coin, so its up ~35x or 40x, but when you consider the Bitcoin price going from $100 to $3000, the increase has not been so much. lol (edited) arc-over-water
With the price up 35x in about 1 year, is it not now time to cool the run up and release another ICO? At what amount of coins released and what procedure? mike
Would Intel Edison or Joule, or Samsung Artik 10 work well as a Skywire wireless node? They have 2 Gb-8 Gb RAM, 8-64 Gg eMMC storage, 802.11n wireless, bluetooth, and some with Zigbee? synth
Have you personally been in Sky from the start? What members have? Who allocates the ICO money etc... I hope you understand that decentralization with investment is a two edged sword, we invest in people but we cannot know these people.... So... we question.
I think there wer three different groups that merged together in first three years, that had similar objectives. Because the code was in different language. There was python, C code and then eventually golang and the golang code became the basis for the current codebase.
The way the coin allocations work, is that it requires unamimious consent for releasing coins and it has to be for a specific, ear marked purpose and can be blocked by any of the devs.
Then there is a pool of coins in bitcoin for various project managers to allocate. And that is an operational fund for paying developers, contractors, marketing etc. Then different people have different responsibilities.
Then we also have corporate funding and sponsorship and some companies paying our full time devs etc, which helps a lot. arc-over-water
Silicon Valley (TV SHOW) recently had their decentralized web running on a network or refrigerators? So i would guess, smart phones, smart gadgets? Home gadgets etc could add services and receive rewards from Sky? mike
best would be a totally open source and publicly audited manufactured system on a chip for the nodes to prevent any backdoors. Even chip designers now don't really know what they're putting into the chips since they just drag and drop black boxes known as IP cores into the ASIC designs. synth
With the price up 35x in about 1 year, is it not now time to cool the run up and release another ICO? At what amount of coins released and what procedure?
I think the Skycoin price has been doubling every 40 days, for as long as I can remember. However, it will still be years before it is in the top 20, its still a long way to climb. It took bitcoin years to go from 0 to $1, even though it was growing at 1% per day the whole time for six years.
best would be a totally open source and publicly audited manufactured system on a chip for the nodes to prevent any backdoors.
we are going to use arm arc-over-water
IOTA is also working on their own hardware for nodes etc, Trinary asset is JINN synth
all intel and AMD systems have remote management engine backdoors. So they are not safe for storing large amounts of coins.
We also have alpine linux and special version of linux, that is 6 MB and has everything that is needed for running our toolchain. It will not have any binary blobs in the kernel or anything that we cant compile from source. It does not have systemd and does not have gli, but uses musl. And does not have openssl. mike
so looks like the Samsung Artik 5 and 10 can run it no problem, they're ARM based. 25x35x4mm package for the Artik 10, Artik 5 is smaller, less powerful but has 2 separate antenna ports, nice for mesh networking with an omni and a directional antenna. earlyarkinvestor
how does Ark compare to Lisk? synth
uploaded this image: 1923810435.jpg Add Comment earlyarkinvestor
isn't Lisk trying to achieve interoperability between blockchains as well synth
uploaded this image: 1433594905.jpg Add Comment synth
uploaded this image: 1432540863.jpg Add Comment synth
uploaded this image: 2049465686.jpg Add Comment mike
nice! looks like an ARM based server rack
let me know if you need any help with it, see you're on solidworks, which I run as well. synth
this is the skycoin cluster; it has 8 CPU boards; 4 cores per CPU, 2 GB of ram per CPU and 64 bit ARM processor. Only one program will run on each individual board, so there is compartmentalization and a physical gap so that compromising one process on a system does no allow all other processes on the system to be compromised mike
looks like 2 ethernet ports per board. synth
and the hardware does not have the qualcom backdoors and is actually chinese equipment; and the backdoors are normally at the kernel level because they are not at hardware backdoors yet
do they have SATA ports, maybe M.2 for storage? synth
and we will hav an ARM openwrt router eventually too
this model does not have SATA, but we have a model with SATA; you could hook up 16 2 TB drives, lol and download half the piratebay to your cluster (edited)
the skycoin infrastructure is cluster based and designed for running across +300 computers, with one "node" deployed per computer. Eithe a CXO storage node, or a skywire SDN/meshnet node, or a VPN end point node or a consensus network, or skycoin node, etc. We have multiple node/application types.
so this is a "personal cloud' by itself
its not like StoreJ where you have other people storing your stuff; you are going to have ~5 clusters and 300 computers and can store your own files, on your own internet, on your own hardware. You do not need to go outside of your own network. mike
Have thought it'd be nice to have a board with an array of M.2 sockets to run SSD arrays without all the cables, have the busses shielded in circuit board. synth
yes, i think there will be m.2 eventually
these actually use a microSSD for storage, and its 48MB/s mike
any idea on the pricing on your ARM boards in quantity? We are looking at Intel for Bitseed V3, but ARM would be good to stay with, especially using your boards if there is SATA. arc-over-water
Do you have a general idea of usable functions to be released next in what order? The first release was the Coin and wallet, then the ICOs and can you give a general future with dates if you can synth
the boards are $30 each and the memory for solid state, is actually more than the the cost of the CPU/RAM/board now. Which is sort of insane. mike
so you have microSSD, what's maximum size? we shipping 1with Tb hard drives right now synth
Bitseed mike is going to help with this; so we can pool the boards and do a custom PCB mike
yes, that's where we see the price jumps, is in RAM and eMMC costs.
and it's hard to find low cost boards with SATA synth
try the orange pi
the price goes up 30% for SATA mike
yes, very nice specs. synth
eventually, we will make one that has custom PCB and is a pluggable blade server, I think. mike
I like the Samsung Artiks for the tiny form factor for drone routers, cubesat/picosat possibilities.
but like the fact that you are controlling much deeper down the supply chain with your boards. synth
we only need ram, CPU, then microSD slot; and that is it. so the wifi and all this other stuff is just crap and its junk. We only have communication, storage and computation. So should be minimialist.
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